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- Should Americans be required to complete government specified training before they can own or carry a gun?
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Full episode auto-transcription
Should Training Be Required for Firearms Ownership? Episode 48
00:00:01 – 00:05:02
Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition. It’s time for the gun guide. TV podcast. This is Joel Persinger. I’m the Gun Guy Thank you very much for listening to the Gun Guy TV podcast and supporting gun guy TV and the various different ways you do now. There’s a couple of subjects I WANNA go over. We’re in this podcast. The first of which is going to cover the first half an hour of the podcast and that’s the question of whether training of some kind should be required for firearms your arms ownership or training should be required to carry a firearm whether openly or concealed and then in the second half of the podcast we’ll talk about whether citizens of the United States should be allowed to have military style weapons that go beyond small-arms in other words things will actually I guess machine guns are small arms but let’s talk talk about machine guns rocket launchers tags and that kind of stuff now that may sound like a ridiculous question but you’ll find out whether it’s ridiculous or not in the second half an hour of the podcast which of course is available on Patriot only but first let’s deal with that first part and that covers whether it should be allowed for people to own firearms without having any training. This is a question that comes up a lot. I think one of the reasons that comes up is is because people are afraid of the idea of an untrained person having some tool that could cause harm or kill and Dan they’ll equate it to other types of tools and say well. You have to have a license to drive your car. You have to have a license to fly a plane. You have to have a license elections to do X Y or Z whatever dangerous or seemingly dangerous activity is included in that however I think where we get get a little messed. Up is the idea that you need a license for things that are a privilege and then acquainting that to a license for something thing which is a right. There’s a big big difference now. That’s an argument that sometimes flies and sometimes doesn’t why should I have to have a lion’s shins or why should I have to have specific specified training in order to exercise a constitutionally protected right. Do I need to have a certain an education level before I can voice my opinion or share my thoughts. Do I need to have studied a certain number number of religions before I’m allowed to select the one that I want to follow or that. I want to believe or decide that I don’t want to believe any and I just as soon not have a religion at all. Do I need to have some level of legal education and understand the details of the law before I’m allowed to as a AH to assert my right to remain silent or avail myself of my right to counsel during the questioning involving any criminal investigation Shen these are all rights enumerated in the constitution. Do I need to have a specific level of training and education before exercise any of those well of course not then why the constitutionalist and second amendment advocate will ask would I need to have training in order to avail myself of my second amendment right to have a firearm all right now. Let’s pause right there and stop and perhaps there’s some things that we can agree to agree on for example. I think reasonable person and I hate to use that term because some people say well that’s subjective and it is but a reasonable person I think would agree that if you’re going to own a firearm and particularly if you’re going to carry it then it’s a good idea to acquire some level of training incommensurate with what you plan to do with that firearm whether it’s have it for home protection or carry it on your person on a regular basis or simply go target shooting in which case you would want to operate it safely so a responsible gun owner I again. I think a reasonable person would agree that a responsible gun owner would seek some level of training that fits their capability and what they plan to do with the firearm however the question still remains should that gun owner be forced to do so oh by the government or should that be the option of the individual who is exercising their constitutional right now. I would argue that it this should be the option of the person exercising their constitutional rights and before you WanNa jump up and down and tell me I’m an idiot. Let me explain in a couple of reasons why I feel that way first of all I think if we were to take a statistical slice of the gun owners and the action it rates of various different localities around the country we would discover that the accident rates are no higher in places is we’re training is not required than they are.
00:05:02 – 00:10:28
In places where training is required so if that’s the case then the training would seem to be unnecessary as as a requirement because I think what you’ll find is that the majority of gun owners of choir some training of some kind either because they grew up around in firearms and there they were taught by their their parents or they have friends who shoot and they learn from their friends or perhaps they served in the military or perhaps a they they got some went out on their own and they took some formal training somewhere but a lot of folks do get training as a firearms instructor. I can tell you I am routinely contacted by new gun owners wanting to have some at least elementary training in operating the firearm and storing the firearm and maintaining the firearm. I’m in a safe and arguably responsible manner so I think a lot of folks just go after this on their own but there’s going to be a subset who do not so what do we do with those folks. Do we grab them by the rump and shove them into a class and say you must sit here for X. number of hours and learn this I I don’t think so. Let’s look at the various different possibilities here. Let’s say for example you have a young person maybe maybe I’m a person in their thirties forties or or even fifties there in reasonably decent shape and they’re in a state whether either because they have a permit or it’s a constitutional title carry state they have the legal ability to carry that firearm with them wherever they go and show they carry that firearm in the midst of all of that some horrible tragedy comes comes along and that that licensed or legal carrier of a legal firearm Asha draw that fireman defend themselves well afterwards when they go to court is the fact that they didn’t have any training or the fact that they did go get training going to affect the decision of the court and when it comes to whatever is being decided there perhaps they’ve been sued by the family of the person whom they shot or they’ve been sued sued by the individual they shot because that individual says yeah I was committing a crime but it didn’t rise to level of somebody trying to kill me or whatever the case might. Ip or perhaps there’s a criminal investigation is the the fact that they didn’t go out and get formal. Training is not going to come back on them in some fashion well I. I don’t know the answer to that question but I suspect that it probably won’t as long as they didn’t accidentally harm someone. They didn’t intend to harm now when that happens most assuredly that subject is GonNa come up in court now at the same time. Maybe you’ve got some individual who is in firmed there in a wheelchair or they’re elderly and they’re unable to get around or whatever the case might be. They’re limited in some physical capacity acidy or maybe as I said they’re elderly enough that they just can’t do it and they can’t go attend a four day handgun clash or even a four hour handgun class and actually exert that level of physical activity and and really survive it while does that person now no longer have a right to keep and bear arms when you’ve got your seventy five year old grandfather eighty five year old grandfather or ninety two year old grandfather or grandmother who have complete faculties but physically are ailing and frail are they no longer worthy of self defense. Do we have to say to that individual. You cannot not defend yourself because you cannot physically go and complete the training it. Oh by the way what level of training are we talking about. Do you have to shoot kneeling to have have to shoot prone. Okay well is the person who is a paraplegic now lo no longer eligible for self defense because they can neither neil nor shoot prone without great difficulty because they’re in a wheelchair. They have a physical limitation that perhaps keeps them from doing that. Is the person who suffered offered from polio as a child who is is has great difficulty walking and now it because they’re required to train in such a way that the training requires them to move from cover to concealment and move back out from cover to cover and draw their firearm reload their firearm wall on the move there they may not be able to do any of that and so if that level of training is required in order for them to carry a firearm with them for self-defense on a regular basis then then they’re not going to be able to avail themselves of their second amendment right to carry a firearm for their own defense. I think these are all valid things to consider because when we start looking at requiring a certain level of training exercise a constitutional right we have to be careful not to require are so much training that the average person regardless of their physical capability might not be able to do it so you know how who sets that rule who sets that boundary who says this is sufficient training and this is not sufficient training well the the truth is it’s generally some politician or bureaucrat and then that’s going to disenfranchise an awful lot of people a lot of people out now.
00:10:28 – 00:15:09
We’ll talk more about this in just a minute. If you would like to support Gun Guy TV I urge you to do that. There are several different ways that you can do so you can obviously support us on Patriot. We’d would love that if you did that because that also avails you of the second half an hour of this podcast in which we’re GonNa talk about whether you should be allowed to have a bazooka tanker for whatever which may seem absurd but nevertheless we’re gonNA talk about it anyway and we talk about a lot of things that second portion that isn’t syndicated for free public consumption. You have to to be a member of patriotic get to it. There’s also a podcast. I do as a video podcast on the first and the fifteenth of every month which is also available only on Patriots so there’s some reasons reasons why you might go do that but there are other ways to. I urge you to check the links. you can support several different ways. Keep in mind we are a pretty much supported by you and that’s what keeps keeps gun Guy TV going so in order to keep it alive. We could certainly use your help. You’re listening to the good night. TV podcast. Please pay ain’t no attention to the man behind the curtain now beyond the simple logic that I I hope it’s simple anyway that I have laid out here. Air One is that this is a constitutionally protected right. It’s a natural right to defend yourself and have the tools with which to do that. Whether that means you’re defending yourself and your family against a criminal or whether you’re defending yourself and your family against a tyrannical radical government which is essentially a governmental criminal one way or the other you’re defending yourself against criminal activity and that is what the founders of the country wanted us to have the ability to do that in order to do that. You must have tools that are capable of doing that. In your hands hands well that means that unlike a police department which might have a physical requirement you have to pash order to be a police officer or a military military organization whether that the organized governmental militia the state or the United States military or whatever the case might be they obviously have awesome physical limitations and say well no you have to be in this kind of physical shape in order to do that citizens on the other hand are not trying to become a police the officer or trying to join the US military or the national guard or whatever the case if they just want to exercise their second amendment right. They’re not trying to do any of that. All they’re trying to to do is defend themselves and their family or if they’d like to have a firearm for other purposes perhaps they’d like to go shooting competition and the like to go hunting or whatever when we start requiring them I am to maintain a certain level of proficiency with that tool then the right ceases to be a right and starts to be not a privilege that can only be exercised if and when you meet certain governmental requirements that then avail you of of the ability to exercise that privilege when the time comes that we start allowing the second amendment to be whittled down to a privilege which frankly we already have of in a lot of areas of the country we are starting to lose a lot of ground and I would say that we’ve already lost that right in the state of California forty for example it is not a right to own a firearm. It’s a privilege it is not a right to carry a firearm on your person. It is a privilege because because without the permission of the government you cannot own or possess or carry that firearm you can’t buy a firearm in the state of California -fornia unless you perch unless you have the little firearm safety card which used to be called a handgun safety certificate and unless you have that card because because you took the little thirty-six questioner forty question test or whatever it is and you demonstrated industry in in front of the Department of Justice instructor at your local gun shop that you can and load and unload the firearm safely you cannot buy that gun notch not as stringent requirement but the point is it’s a requirement. Don’t you have to meet that governmental threshold or you cannot purchase firearm and if you can’t purchase the firearm then guess what you have a great deal of difficulty faculty owning something that you cannot buy likewise in California unless you go through a stringent background check a required fired level of training which I think in California is a minimum of eight hours and a maximum of sixteen hours of training and range qualification.
00:15:09 – 00:21:19
You cannot not carry a firearm with you for your own personal defense. Now someone will say and it’s been said to me. Well Yeah but you know if you’re not trained trained. You could hurt other people if you tried to defend yourself in a public place in your carrying a gun and you’re not trained you. Could I mean you just might accidentally miss the bad guy and you could shoot some poor innocent individual who happens to be there all right well that that might be true. I I’m not gonNA argue that that couldn’t happen because it most assuredly could however I have. We talk about this. We you will find the press will say this often. Many people will say okay that police officers by virtue of the fact that they’re police officers and they’ve had training in the academy with whatever that may be and they’ve had firearms training meaning they are experts and I’m doing little quotations with my hands here. They are experts with firearms. Well now look. I’ve I been on the range with a lot of police officers. I’ve had police officers in my classes and I can tell you that in many instances I’ve had police officers qualifying on my range that if I were standing down range and they were shooting at me as long as I don’t move. I’m perfectly safe if I if I shift one side or the other might walk into one of their MRS because they aren’t experts with firearms many of them. This is why police leash officers have such a woefully low hit rate during officer involved shootings. I’ve heard statistics of twenty to thirty thirty percent hit rate that means if an osher fires ten rounds two or three are are likely to hit the bad guy all right now. We have to ask the logical question. Where do the other eight go? Well tell you where the other g eight went. They went past the bad guy and they went down range somewhere and in some cases they do hit bystanders bystanders. As far as I know it doesn’t happen a lot but it does happen very recently. I couldn’t find the news story but it was interesting. I heard on the news on the radio. While I was on the way to the race. Go teach apparently to police officers who got themselves into a circular firing squad they approached a saas a suspect that they apparently wanted to talk to her felt was armed or whatever and they did show in such a way that they were on either side of the suspect so when they faced a suspect they were literally facing facing each other as well with the suspect in the middle and apparently they had their duty sidearms out and ordered the suspect to do this to enter the other. The suspect drew drew a weapon of some sort caused the officers to feel threatened so they both fired and yes as far as I I know they at least one or both of them hit the suspect uh-huh they also shot each other in the leg. Okay now wait a minute officers are not taught to shoot at legs. They’re taught to shoot center mass the center of the body and that’s because that’s the biggest and easiest target to hit that’s what they’re taught to shoot at his center mass the center of the body and if they’re excited and they jerk the trigger they fire low so both of these officers not tons of yards but actually probably feet from the suspect on either side shoot at the suspect they do manage him but they also manage a hit each other in the leg. So what does that tell you that tells you that they shot a whole bunch of rounds. It didn’t need to shoot and in in the process they were jerking the trigger and spraying and praying and inadvertently shot each other well first of all. If you’re a firearms expert quote unquote you know not to put yourself into a circular firing squad in the first place and not put your partner down range of you. There are better ways to do that that you also know to try to angle yourself wherever possible where you have down range some sort of backstop. That’s going to stop that round. In case you miss you also get to the range and you practice under stress so that if you’re scared you don’t just jerk the trigger however many times and fire however many rounds you feel that that the gun has in it and hit whatever you hit with whatever rounds fly but let’s face it. It’s a fact and if you’re a COP. I’m not picking on yeah. It’s just a fact most cops are not firearms expert even though in a lot of particularly larger departments not maybe not so much smaller ones a lot of departments they receive you know a fairly decent amount of firearms training oftentimes officers just spray and pray the rounds go wherever and that’s why you have that woefully woefully terrible statistic that they’re they’re missing seventy five to eighty percent of the time that’s that’s pretty bad and that launches a a Lotta rounds down range that hurt a lot of people now i WanNa make sure that you do know about one sponsor that we have forgotten guy TV and that’s practical defense systems systems because that’s the company that my wife and I own and it actually funds the majority of what Gun Guy TV does both on Youtube and other video platforms and also here on the gun guy TB audio podcast because things like hosting the podcast hosting the videos on on our website and having the website the site syndicating the audio podcasts all of those things cost money in addition to driving back and forth the range and people will say well you drove before well yeah oftentimes Fantine have to drive to Yuma which is a two and a half hour drive one way and when you’re taking my truck because you’ve got a cart targets out there and other stuff that’s about one hundred dollars and fuel round trip so it does cost money to produce these things and that’s why we ask for your support so if you are looking for training as a security guard in particular in the state of California urge you to check out practical defense systems you can find us by looking you can just google practical defense systems or if you like you can go to p.
00:21:19 – 00:25:07
D. S. CLASHES DOT com. That’s tedious like practical. Defense Systems Paul David Sam followed by the word classes dot com. PDF CLASSES DOT com. I’m for practical defense systems saving the Second Amendment one episode out of time. This is the Gun Guy TV podcast so I hope in the process of this I’ve dispelled some of the argument for required training first of all It’s a right not a privilege to have a firearm and frankly the right is to keep and bear a firearm that is is to have it with you for your personal defense ready to use for that purpose. That’s a right it is not a privilege and so as a write it it really isn’t appropriate for the government to place restrictions on your rights and disenfranchise you by requiring a level of training now I’ve shed as they’ve firearms instructor. I think training is extremely important and a responsible gun owner would go seek it but that it shouldn’t be governmental requirement now. We’ve also talked talked about the fact that some folks because they may have physical limitations or they may be elderly or whatever they may not be able to meet the government requirements for training and they should not be told because because they’re eighty five or eighty seven or something along those lines that they’re not suitable to defend they no longer have a right to defend themselves. Arguably people who are are physically they have physical difficulties or they’re handicapped or they’re elderly will they actually have increased need for a firearm because they’re not young and strong and capable uh of fighting off a stronger younger and more determined attacker and then lastly we’ve we’ve also talked about training and whether it actually really accomplishes what we think it accomplishes and how police officers who receive actually quite a bit of training and in medications much more training than most civilians seem to Miss S. The overwhelming majority of the time when faced with self defense or or law enforcement type shooting incidents but there is one more thing that we should address and that is this cost first of all purchasing. A firearm is not an inexpensive proposition most time you have to save up your money to do good. That’s expensive to begin with and then ammunition is expensive and in California they make it harder and harder and harder to avail you your yourself love your Second Amendment right by raising the taxes on firearms and ammunition other stage do that too so now we look at someone who perhaps lives in a bad neighborhood. They live in a lower socioeconomic area. They’d like to have a firearm to defend themselves. They have to save up the money to buy the firearm save up the money to pay for the background. Check save up the money me too to buy the ammunition and now you want them to go spend money on training well. I will tell you that a lot of these training classes don’t cost five or ten bucks. They cost hundreds of dollars so now you have taken an entire segment of the society and said I’m sorry sorry but you’re just too broke to be worth saving your jazz too broke to be able to avail yourself of your right to self defense. You cannot use the most effective tool that is available to you on the planet to defend yourself against criminals and gang members and such and that is a firearm because you’re just too broke to do it and we’ve made it art officially more expensive than it ought to have been and in the process ask. We’ve made it impossible for you to avail yourself of that right when I when somebody asks me.
00:25:07 – 00:30:07
Should somebody get training should a gun on her. Get Training. My a universal answer is yes when they ask me should training be a requirement for firearms ownership or possession or Kerry very as a firearms instructor. I want to say yes because I know that quality professional training helps helps people tremendously when it comes to the use of firearms either for self defense or hunting or any other purpose and having taught hot people how to shoot for a very very long time and having sought professional training myself not only on an instructor level but on a personal level and gone to places she’s like front sight and so on and and taken many. NRA courses not justice civilian ones but also the NRA law enforcement instructor instructor level courses which are tremendous courses and teach you a ton having received an enormous amount of firearms training over the years as a as a as an NRA Array USA shooting certified shotgun coach and all these other things that I do I can tell you that it is honestly if you’re a responsible gun owner. It’s vital that you go get some training. It really is because training is what’s going to kick in when you’re threaten training is what you’re GonNa do automatically manically when you’re trained sufficiently you will automatically take your finger off the trigger when you’re sites. You’re no longer on the target you will automatically keep the gun pointed at a safe direction. You will automatically check to make sure that that firearm is unloaded when you put it back in the safe you will automatically make sure that that stays in the holster when you’re carrying it concealed carry permit holder and less such time as you get home and you’re putting it away or you have to draw to defend yourself. You’re not gonNA take it out and set it on the toilet tank when you’re in the public lick restroom and forget leave at there and walk away. That’s happened many times and that could happen to antibody so I’m not being critical. Anybody can do that including me. You’re not GonNa do any of those things if you practice and are trained sufficiently. You’re going to pretty much. You’re going to relieve yourself of the problem of having negligent discharges for the most part because you’ve got to go or negligent discharges that harm anyone because you always you’re always scrupulous about having the gun pointed at a safe direction when you’re loading and unloading it or whatever you’re doing these are all safety things in training things that are very very important and if you go to the level of having training that is under stress using turning targets or shoot no shoot training and that kind of stuff decision training and that kind of thing if you do those kind of things as well that helps you deal a little bit or prepare a little bit perhaps for the additional additional stress of having to defend yourself that you’re operate more efficiently and more safely engaging just a threat and not and you’ll reduce your your risk of harming people who happened to be down range that shed when people ask me if that should be required by law or that should be a requirement for gun owners a two to meet before they can own gonNA carry a gun. My unequivocal answer is no and I say that without reservation the answer is no for all the reasons that I just detailed for you. Because the moment you start requiring gun owners to to have training in order to possess a gun or carry area gun that is an incredible slippery slope because every year the training requirement will increase and every year the cost of that training will increase and every time politicians are elected who don’t want you to own a gun or do not want you to be able to carry a gun. Their requirements are going to become more stringent and more difficult for you to to achieve in order to have that gun in fact if you start allowing that what will happen is retroactive. Give laws that go back previously and say well. You may not be buying a gun now but you probably have them and if you currently own a gun you’re required to have this training and this slash in order to possess that gun even though you’ve possession it for years and years and years this is the dangerous road we go down when we start allowing more more and more government regulation and restriction of constitutionally protected right. I’ll bottom line for you. Should American citizens be required to have a a certain level of training in order to own possess or carry a firearm. My answer is no. I’m curious to know what yours so. Do me a favor and leave me some in comments or if you like you’re going to send me an email. Let me know you can send me an email always at Joel Joel at K B N I N C dot Com that’s Joel at K B T N INC dot com now for the KB TNN ’cause you don’t know if you just think of kick butt take names that’ll help you. Kb T. N. INC CREATIVE KTAR DOT com all right now if you’re listening on Patriots Day with me because we’re GONNA continue with the rest of the podcast.
00:30:08 – 00:30:30
If you are listening to the syndicated indicated version we’re going to wrap it up here and with my great. Thanks thank you very much for listening. I’m very grateful that you do please tell other people about the podcast so they can subscribe as well. I I very much enjoyed doing this for you. We’re experiencing a quite a bit of growth with it and that is super encouraging so please tell others about the podcast if you enjoy it or maybe be sending