Second Amendment Court Cases Explained – EP 67

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Topics in this episode: 

  • Chuck Michel (NRA/CRPA Attorney) explains how the Supreme Court works and where the fight for the Second Amendment stands in the courts. We also got an update on California issues from Sam Paredes of Gun Owner of California and Rick Travis of the California Rifle and Pistol Association.

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Second Amendment Court Cases Explained EP 67

00:00:01 – 00:05:02

Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition. It’s time for the gun guide. Tv podcast hi. This is Joel Singer. I’m the gun guy. Thank you very much for listening to my podcast and supporting Gun Guy TV. I’m very grateful that you do all of that while we were at show. We did a number of interviews with folks while sitting in the press room among those interviews was a very key and informative interview in which we discussed what’s going on currently with cases at the Supreme Court as well as how those cases might affect my home state of California. I was very fortunate to have Rick Travis from California Rifle and Pistol Association Sam Perez from Gun Owners of California and Chuck Michelle Attorney for both the NRA and CR PA and the volunteer president of the California rifle and Pistol Association. Has My guests. Now as I’ve done in the previous interview we did from shot show. I’m not going to divide this in half as I normally do with my podcasts or the entire thing is going to be publicly available syndicated on your favorite podcast player will also post copies of it on. Youtube and the other video destinations. Next time around. We’ll get back to the fifty fifty split of the podcast but in this one I wanna make sure since he information is extremely important that it’s available to everyone not just my Patriot subscribers. Additionally I’m not going to place in the ADS or calls to action in the podcast because it interrupts the discussion so I won’t be doing that. They’re what I will do is say to you here if you’d like to support gun guy. Tv and support this podcast. You can do so a couple of different ways. One of which is to shop Amazon using our Amazon link that helps Asha ton. It helps US fund effort to keep you informed. You can find that link on our website at gun guide dot TV. Here’s the interview but we have Cadre the three Amigos here. Who generally you don’t see at the same time in the same place which is kind of amazing we’ve got Rick Abbas. Crp WHO got Chuck Michelle? Who’s the president of CRP outstanding attorney by all report site? Never had to hiring for anything. I’m grateful but but from what I understand that I have. And I resemble that he agreed. And there you are saying and the incomparable and amazing. Sam Perera’s my friend is here as well so I’m really grateful so now I have a feeling of. I don’t have to say a whole lot. I have to ask you guys. What’s happening in California? Well you start all right. I’ll start Just when you thought the storm was over and that they couldn’t do anything to control firearms in trample on the constitution and Second Amendment. The legislature is going to be doing more stuff. Yes we got expanded gun. Violence restraining orders red flag laws for those of you outside of the state. We’ve got a rationing where we were not allowed to buy any more than one gun per month. We’ve got adults who have served in our military and used all manner of spectacular weapons and firearms. Who Come back to the state of California might be married and have kids. But they’re not quite twenty one years of age they don’t have any second amendment rights in the State of California. They cannot purchase a firearm. We’ve got Ammunition Ammunition We have we have get this job. You and I’ve talked about this. Three hundred sixty five thousand five hundred seventy four applications background checks for the purchase of ammunition and a couple of months out of that over sixty thousand law-abiding Californians who have no criminal record have been denied their ability to exercise their Second Amendment right and buy ammunition and out of that three hundred forty five thousand five hundred seventy four hundred. One people have been identified. That were ineligible by munition. So that’s kind of like shooting a fly with a nuclear bomb and it’s not like that one hundred and one was a felon’s even there’s thirty different ways that you can lose your right to possess firearms and most of the time. A lot of those people don’t even realize they’ve fallen into that category absolutely absolutely so we know his name is isn’t that I’m sure go ahead. You’re doing the rundown I know. I don’t want to interrupt the rundown while the rundown his We’ve been run over and run over. Even more is that case is your case sitting with judgment. He does right now and here comes chuck. Yes there is Were judge gave us that great ruling in the Large Plus Ten plus round magazine case That that gave us freedom week where we brought a million magazines that could hold over ten rounds into the State of California after a twenty year drought. So obviously those little pent up demand the little And we filed the Rhody case.

00:05:02 – 00:10:11

Kim Rhody who we all know and love Olympic Gold medalist. She’s a great cow. We were just visiting her downstairs. He’s our lead plaintiff and she and and sixty eight eight thousand other Calif Law abiding California gun owners or having a hell of a time trying to buy ammunition and so we filed a lawsuit shortly after that law took effect With hers lead plaintiff. And it’s with judgment test. We moved for a preliminary injunction. And he’s considering it. He’s headed under submission. He’s had a couple of other high profile cases which may have been taking up some of his time. But we’re expecting a ruling any day now. They’re all the digits are crossed that he’s going to do it again for us because this is such a ridiculous infringement on the on the right to keep embarrassed you can’t the reality is that this is part of. Gavin newsom war on the gun culture. He wants to murder the golden gun culture make as expensive as it it. It can be make it difficult as can be shut down. Rangers shutdown gun shows shutdown. Gun stores any place where you can buy a gun or shoot a gun or learn about a gun. He doesn’t want that place to exist because he wants to. Basically starve out Anybody who might consider owning a gun because he doesn’t want them to realize how much fun shooting can be. Or how much value of firearm has a self defense tool defend yourself and your family. And as soon as people forget that they’re taking out of the of the world where people talk about that they lose interest and that’s exactly what Kevin Usage plan is. So we’re very very hopeful that will that lawsuit and dozens of others that are an NRA Ngozi have going on in California right now. Against all manner of things with many more to come we just need to keep fundraising frankly to pay the lawyers and we. We give very reduced nonprofit charity rates and NRA and UC. But still. I can’t do it. My wife won’t let me do it for nothing. We do give reduce rates all those but I could use some some paying business. So if you’re having if you have a legal problem give us a call. You know we we do. Uh Land Use environmental Labor Law Employment Law and we have lots of corporate clients that that we help and those are for profit clients so well business. If I needed attorney I will call you there you go. I do hope that I don’t need one for a while. The last time I was a few years ago and we were very successful but I really would rather not repay. Should’ve because at least people realize first of all they have to go there a couple times a year and they realize okay. It’s a necessary evil. I don’t mind paying my honor to Russia. And then the dentist has a thousand cuts clients right because everybody’s got teeth babe and they don’t mind coming back at route one hundred clients and they hate me because they never wanna see once. I’m done with helping them out. They never want to see a lawyer again for the rest of their lives. Not such a you. It’s it’s it’s the whole legal analysis on the whole thing. Exactly how is trump’s trump’s federal picks? Helping US oh. The composition of the notoriously historically very very progressive ninth circuit used to be two to one republic. Democrats versus Republican appointees so. It was heavily stacked progressive through a number of of of retirements and deaths. There’s been more positions opened up the trump’s been able to fill right now. It’s about six to four so we’re almost even so that means when you first have that first argument in front of a panel three judge panel. You’ve got a good chance that you’re going to at least have one. Republican appointed judge on that panel. And maybe too if you have to you win so it. Dramatically changes the odds and the philosophy that you’re facing when you you know argue a case to the to the Ninth Circuit Bench now because it’s much greater. Chances going to be at least one Republican on Republican appointee on the bench. Unfortunately it’s not quite that simple. You can’t just say that. The Democrat judges are going to rule against the Second Amendment and the Republicans are GonNa rule for it. But at least the ninth circuit has shown a tendency inclination to bend over backwards intellectually in order to uphold gun control laws so we had that great hallel ruling in two thousand eight the McDonald’s ruling in two thousand ten and we’ve had a decade of of course ignoring basically the mandates of those cases. So you know what David Hardy said way back in two thousand eight when that came down and everybody says oh great. This is the beginning of the end of gun. Control that no. This is the end of the beginning. And that’s exactly what it was. That was the end of the beginning. We’ve had the middle I hope. And maybe we’re going to with the Supreme Court ruling any of the New York state rifle and Pistol Association versus New York City case or one or the other Second Amendment Challenges Cases.

00:10:11 – 00:15:08

That are queued up behind that. If they decide that that cases moot and don’t answer it directly in that case the Supreme Court’s GonNa decide what the standard of review is in other words. How much scrutiny does a gun control law? Get when it’s being challenged on second amendment grounds and we’re very very hopeful that the second that’s the Supreme Court is going to give the second amendment back its teeth. And we’re going to have a second amendment that means something and that governments can’t just make stuff up and not be challenged when they come up with this you know pocket fuzz to justify the laws that they’re passing. They’re going to have to actually prove something that they’re proposing to do. Works and that it set up so that it doesn’t necessarily limit people’s right to choose to own a gun to defend themselves or their family sport you’re listening to the TV podcast. Please pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. I hear a lot about the New York case. And I’ve heard folks articulate that they don’t what happens to the doomsday scenario in their hits that if the court decides not to a pine on that case because they feel like it’s mood that we’re stuck but obviously there are other cases stacked up behind. That wasn’t sure the Supreme Court about ninety percent of the cases that the Supreme Court has asked to review are simply rejected by a letter that says cert denied. And that’s the end of that. So all the money that you need. Cash seven thousand dollars just to print the briefs to get Supreme Court. You have to go to a professional printer but so all these people in cases try and ninety percent of rejected some are and then the court has conferences internal considering table this deciding whether or not they’re going to take a case or not takes four votes to take a case five votes to win a case but they can also rather than just granting cert- flat out they can hold a case and so they’ve got about a half a dozen second amendment cases on hold where they haven’t issued a ruling whether they’re going to grant certain review or not they’re just in a holding pattern because so that if this. New York City case is is not ruled on the substantive underlying second amendment issue. It’s helped me moot and and you know basically thrown out because it’s the the statue doesn’t exist anymore Then we’ll go to one of those other cases that’s been on hold and have to decide whether or not to take one of those so there’s about four those two licensed cirque public carry cases. There’s a California handgun roster case and I don’t remember the other two with several several other different kinds. There’s a black rifle case and so there’s a there’s a selection for the Supreme Court has been normal for the court to have number of Second Amendment cases on hold no isn’t an anecdotal inference. That we can draw or intention a show. We could draw with our intention. Unfortunately there’s too it’s not just that they’re holding them in case they don’t do the New York case they could. They could be holding them. Because and there’s a number of other cases by the way across the country and especially in the ninth circuit that are stayed waiting for that Supreme Court ruling so it could just be the Supreme Court holding them because depending on what it does in a New York case which everybody expects will be positive for us but in the normal course of things if it wasn’t a second amendment case with there was some case that’s going to affect a bunch of other cases they would hold those cases until they ruled on whatever. The case was going to set honesty. Okay so we can’t necessarily we can’t necessarily draw infringed with regard to the court’s intention by the fact that they’re holding those cases one thing that I’ve learned from being a friend and a colleague in a client of Chuck’s the mysteries of what happens in the supreme. Court are are epic They’re they’re the we don’t know everything that goes on drawing inferences. Your hopes are often dashed. But you can take a look that they’ve had the opportunity to to to reject all of these other cases but they’ve opened dockets when they opened the documents. They open a file for that. It’s in the process and the waiting waiting to check. I mean the the justices on the ninth. We’ve got the young case out of Hawaii Open. Carry concealed carry. We’ve got a multitude of cases that Michelle associates have brought to European and and with the support of Benham’s have brought and they’re holding on on all of those cases which they could have dealt with a long time ago to wait to see what happens here the importance for us as chuck points out in deciding on the level of scrutiny is monumental it really truly is and the reason that we are so hopeful first of all.

00:15:08 – 00:20:05

California rifle and Pistol Association gun owners in California we wrote a joint reef and submitted it to the Supreme Court. That asked the court not to deal with the issue of of So much of the public transportation of firearms in in the city. But we were asking the court to take a look at the fact that many courts throughout the country have basically flipped the middle finger to the Supreme Court and have refused to follow the directive justice. Scalia said and gave an inhaler versus Washington DC where he said just judges should refrain from using judicial balancing tests in order when when deciding second amendment cases because apparently biased. That’s right and he said techs history and tradition of the meaning of the words at the founding is should be the only guy and what does that mean. That means that okay. Let me make sure I understand it. We’ve probably interrupting your would. You’re talking about text history and tradition. You’re talking about the text history and tradition at the time at the founding. It was written. That’s correct not text history tradition at two thousand negative. You can look at history since it was written. And that’s what the other side is trying to do. This is Sam’s opening up a really interesting and somewhat arcane and legal easy topic here I’m a legal but the standard of review you know. Typically they had if you’re doing a first amendment case they have rational basis which means anything or legislature says. They’re going to accept a no laws ever struck down. Basically where some. Kind of intermediate scrutiny or strict scrutiny. Where it has to be. A compelling governmental interest and the law has to be narrowly tailored so that it doesn’t unnecessarily impact people in accomplishing whatever that compelling government governmental interest is so strict scrutiny often laws or struck down on. First Amendment grounds. And in fact we had the gun. Show the challenge the gun show ban which brought a First Amendment Challenge and that court said this political speech. We’re GONNA apply strict scrutiny. The gun show band falls the the trend now. And this is what Cavanaugh. A subscribes to and Gorsuch and the most of the conservative judges on the current court. Is this text. History and traditions called originalist approach. What what is this law supposed to do? The first place and so our position is there are very few Gun Control Laws. That have ever really existed throughout history. So it’s going to be very difficult to justify most government the most Gun Control Laws. Or when you apply the text history and tradition test but interestingly enough Michael Bloomberg sees this coming and he has already gone out and started a funding scholarship. You can look at the Duke Law Center Duke Firearms Law Center there already cranking out all this stuff. They have the whole history of all the laws that existed throughout our paths since it since the Second Amendment was passed and all these articles about what text history and tradition means. And how you know. It’s going to cause all kinds of problems. I mean they’re already tried to influence the already gearing up to fight back when and if the text history and tradition test is becomes the becomes the standard of review for Second Amendment Challenges. So this is this. Is You know lawyers. This is like one of the most significant civil rights cases that has ever come down the pike a brown versus board of Education. Got Nothing on this this this jurisdictional development here in the arguments that’s going on about what the standard of review should be and when the government can and cannot restrict your right to keep and bear arms. Well I think it’s you’re right. I mean we’re in the week but at the same time while we’re in the weeds rick and I’ve talked about this many times. Sam have as well that if the average gun owner. That’s me I went to college. Got Great graduate. So I’m I’m one of those average gun owners right. The average gun owner doesn’t necessarily have the time desire. Maybe the desire but not the time to really get into the weeds and understand this stuff and as a result. It’s very easy to be this guy who thinks well you know? It’s not a big deal to fight a court case it’s not a big deal to to fund a cortege. Why is it so difficult to figure? And you’re you know you’re laughing but I think this is a realistic problem we have. You’re absolutely right. Remember the issues in Heller. Were is it a collective right of a militia or is it an individual right so that’s one big battle of the scholars? You Know Battle of the big brains to try to decide what’s done the second like a relatively Elementary question but no which is why Scalia’s opinion is one hundred pages long with two thirds of it is all about history.

00:20:05 – 00:25:00

It’s not even a legal analysis. A historical analysis and then we had the incorporation question is the Second Amendment Incorporated into the bill of Rights through the fourteenth enlistment. Mcdonald’s right yeah. Those of us who took his civics class may remember this little exercise about how the bill of rights did not apply to the states initially and then the fourteenth amendment came along and incorporated most of those rights but not every single one of the ten bill of rights so selective incorporation. It was called something you had to have a test on whether or not. The Second Amendment was also incorporated against the state and local governments. Which McDonald’s said it was everybody knew after that decision came down. The next question is going to be. What’s The standard of review? Even though it was addressed in part in Heller and some of the water down tests were expressly shutdown inhaler. Which by the way they’re still using all over the place still use shut down a few words around quotes right. What’s rose by any other name right shooting strain and always right on target? This is a gun. Guy Heap podcast. So what we’re really hoping for to get to the bottom line here in the Supreme Court either. The New York City case comes down and says everybody’s been applying the wrong standard of review. Here’s the right standard of review. And then they’re going to take all those cases that are lined up behind it and they’re going to do what’s called a dvr grant vacate and remand. So they’re going to grant airy they’re going to vacate the lower court decision. They’re going to remand it back to the lower court again and say redesigned this case now in light of what we just said so they don’t do that to York that it just means another one flips in that case and all the rest still stay on hold and then whatever the case is is decided and then you’ve got the DVR and the rest. Is this why judges like judge? Benito’s and so on her seemed to be dragged. I don’t know if they’re dragging if he seems like he’s taking longer to come up with a decision on certain cases. Are they holding these kind of in a band waiting for that decision for the spring? I think that Well the night circuit state some cases like they stayed a couple of CCW public carry challenges that we have and so they’re they’re waiting so court can decide. I’m going to wait for typically it’s pellet court not a trial court. I in in this case though any any time a judge is getting ready to do some kind of a decision. That’s going to be heavily. Publicized and then scrutinized. They know it’s going to be appealed so many tests knows what no matter what he does. In the animal case it will be appealed. And so he’s probably I mean it’s probably the odds. Are that what he’s doing is doing a thorough job. He’s he’s trying to make his decision bulletproof much like he did with with the magazine. Says that thing’s amazing not being a lawyer. But still having savvy business guys. I’ve hired a lot of lawyers. My life are a lot of legal six business. I own just to give you an idea sitting here reading his decision. I’m just marveling. It is work of art the depth that he classrooms as civic government. This looked like something it should have come out of the Supreme Court. I mean it was really amazing. This is what some of the lawyers that you know are are very anxious true believers. They’re anxious to try and move the ball downfield and get some more second amendment ruling not to mention some of these lawyers just hope to get a shot it for a lawyer like like a baseball player. You know when you get into the majors you’re going to the show if you get to the Supreme Court you’re going to the show. You shouldn’t go to the show lawyers should not. There’s there’s lawyers who have done fifty or one hundred Supreme Court cases a Supreme Court argument can turn on a dime. And if you don’t have the entire vast knowledge that’s why we use paulk lament. He knows every constantly check does Supreme Court litigation all the time knows constitutional law backwards and forwards when they take a second amendment and start arguing about some fourth amendment precedent and seeing what it means not many lawyers have all those cases in their heads and most lawyers frankly are not great writers. I mean you don’t have to be a great writer to be a lawyer in in most cases but to be a good advocate for civil right. That’s emerging like the second amendment. You have to be able to write and write persuasively. And it’s it’s it’s a very rare skill. Frankly that’s why the lawyers that get right. Outta law school right now are getting in Los Angeles County. The voyeurs are picked. They have they went to lawyers. That had the the students that had a law review background. They wrote as part of their legal education and got graded and got as those guys.

00:25:00 – 00:30:06

Now step out of law school into downtown law firm. That’s looking for their writing skills. And they’re paid one hundred and ninety five thousand dollars a year first year at law school. That’s how rare that skill is encouraging the Tar. Outta me here. I mean I don’t know whether this is going to go well or poorly. But it sounds like it’s it’s headed in the right direction satellite. We’ve got the right lawyers. Not I’m not even talking about me. I mean we have a team. We have a lot of great lawyers. Great Writers Great Scholars. You know all over the country. A that are working together on these strategically selected cases. And we’ve maximize the chances. There’s no such thing as a as a. GimMe but we’ve maximize the chances that we’re GONNA win. Now you’ve just brought up something that becomes a bugaboo for a lot of people because again a lot of folks don’t know the inside baseball aspect of it. The whole idea of cheap of selecting cases strategically can you touch upon will. Yeah there’s courts are are influenced. Hopefully not too much but the reality is you have to take into consideration their influenced by a bad press and by human emotions and by Emotional appeals So the first test case that you want to bring to. That’s why in. In in the Heller case law that went so far in your house. You couldn’t have a loaded gun ready defendfamily in your house. So there’s no controversy about carrying guns in public or any of the other controversial aspects. They took picked a very narrow issue. And then in the McDonald’s case it was a similar law in Chicago that was used to test the incorporation doctor. Well since then we tried to do like our first case that we did after Macdonald came down was a challenge to San Francisco’s locked storage. Mandate and the Ninth Circuit as we have recounted bent over backwards distinguished it and unfortunately the Supreme Court didn’t take that case even though a couple of judges. Thomasson can’t remember who the other one Thomas Wanted. He wanted to take and he’s wanted to take he’s wanted to take a lot of chaos since then. But that’s something I’ve seen very rarely. In the court. Opined in a written dissent written dissent those are very rare and we got one of those on Peruta too. Yeah that that tells you. The Supreme Court is looking. They’re paying attention but we do have the votes. They didn’t have Kennedy because Kennedy sees all the the the coverage of people getting hurt or killed by crazy. People misusing firearms. That’s the kind of thing. And especially when they try and condemn black rifles semi-automous. That’s a tougher case to take the case where somebody wants to be able to carry a gun a handgun in public so that they can defend themselves. So you gotta try and first of all strategically that way but there’s more just on the topic but then there’s so much more to this the judge the judges district you’re in. I wish we had some really bad gun laws in Texas. Yes absolutely. I’m right there with you but we don’t. How much harm does it do? If we’re not strategic about the cases that we take can make terrible precedent and this is. What really scares me. The most to tell you the truth the when the Supreme Court does set the record straight and set the standard of proof where it ought to be there. I’m afraid there’s going to be a rush like there was right. After Heller where lawyers who can’t write that persuasively who don’t have the resources. It’s not just skill. It’s you have to have access to all kinds of resources. And not the least of which is money you have to have human resources and experts but the folks that don’t have that are going to think as the flyers did right after. Heller that they can file a complaint staple the Heller decision to the complaint and mail it into the court and they win. It’s never that’s never going to happen. It hasn’t happened in any other. You know the evolution of First Amendment jurisprudence don’t know other Area of law has changed instantly overnight. One hundred eighty degrees. It may change ninety or or a little more degrees but you still have to fight for the rest of that and so my fear is there were. I think we’re on the verge of the Second Amendment Renaissance where the Second Amendment will mean something. But we don’t want to screw it up could screw it up set. Because if you don’t do it right. You get bad precedent. You give a hostile judge. Excuse an look to try and hang a bad opinion on and that becomes precedent. The opinions expressed by Denier. Always Bright. Unless they’re all rick you’re in Hugh are the point. I’ve known you for years. I’ve never seen you that quiet in my life. No He’s really he’s right and this is what we’ve talked about before. It’s the coordination that we have to have and that’s why there’s so many groups like GMC Sierra Pa that worked together on this because we were not focused just on our group we care about the Second Amendment to Constitution.

00:30:06 – 00:35:01

People’s freedoms were not focused like in California just on thirty nine and a half million people semi talk about this. We’re focused on every American. Both here in the United States in our service abroad were fighting for their rights. And that’s why we’re very meticulous. Very careful it’s why we don’t have knee jerk mob reactions a lot of times when you called me and told me like you do a Sam. Hey all these people are pounding. These questions were like not yet. Because we’re looking at that moment to figure out what the best pathway is. And we’re not gonNA have that knee jerk reactions. Play people in our community. Do like Chuck says. Sometimes you know the best well-meaning attitude done that way can hurt all of us deeply for a long period of time. I want to change the subject briefly because I wanNA lift you guys up a little bit. I think it. I think it doesn’t happen often enough. You guys are all sharp well educated men and you certainly could be making an awful lot more money if you’re focused on other stuff but you’re not I have heard for example you know comments like well checks only the president of CRP because he gets business from net absolutely nonsense. So I’m going to bring it up right now to call it exactly what it is. It’s nonsense and I’m going to open it up for you guys. Make any comments about that if you wish. But I’m GONNA say right now that if if you’re feeling that way and you’re listening to this. These men have dedicated their lives and time and effort and a lot more than most places. Most people do to this fight and they certainly could be making an awful lot more money and shooting in the Bahamas drinking a Miteir. Whatever if they wished I’m GONNA say Chuck I think sometimes people think he makes all this money he doesn’t. He gives an extremely deep discount. Jolyon I’ve talked on programs. How much law costs chuck does a lot things pro bono for the community? He takes a big hit being upfront. There’s Times that we are behind in trying to catch up with you. Know donations and fundraisers to pay his bills. And we’re not. The only organizations had to do that and this man extends himself all the time way out ahead of the front to protect all of us and doesn’t get near the credit you shed Joel. I’m a life member of Sierra pay. Probably and I can tell you that that in this time in history having Chuck Michelle is the president of CRP is a God given blessing in my opinion because he is the right man to focus an incredibly historical and heralded organization that has been in California for one hundred and forty five hundred forty five years minute and in this point in history they are leading and doing exactly what needs to be done and with any other leadership if it it just it couldn’t happen because the stars and align and and and they are now now. I get the pleasure working with chuck a lot and I can tell you gun owners and even the NRA here in California. Those of us who have to lobby the legislature and working with these state associations among state associations. I’m sure we are the lowest paid of any executives in of any organization. I for sure and probably in in the low low two or three percent of any paid lobbyists in the states. I am an armchair lawyer. Thankfully I have the assistance of of of an actual one. You have an actual one. Who knows what he’s talking about. But more importantly we are all extremely passionate like yourself and are willing to sacrifice a lot the we could be doing other things. A. And enjoying it but there’s no pleasure in knowing that we could affect the restoration of the Second Amendment not only in California nationwide by what we do and that is a huge responsibility senator. Richardson chairman passed away last week. Zoo and and He’s no more pain. No more sorrow no more. He’s he’s wearing needs to be but he left us with a legacy and he left us with the tools and the the the expertise and the knowledge on how to fight effectively. And that’s what we’re doing so anybody. Who’s out there? Criticizing or California or even in our in California or any of the organization.

00:35:01 – 00:40:02

Hey I’m sorry you have no not. Your arguments don’t qualify. They’re just you don’t know what you’re talking about We’re all as best we can be. Cw holders unless you live in La County. I’m so sorry but that’s ridiculous. We’re all shooters we all. Train were hunters. Rick has a huge passion for leading a CPA in the in the in the hunting fastly needed. Because that’s an essential part not the reason for the Second Amendment but into central part of the Second Amendment. And that’s why we do this as as gun owners. We have this unfortunate habit of fighting with each other when we ought to be fighting for each other. In which case we’d be doing a lot better so to your to your Point we’ve got to at some point. Stop doing that. Poor Chuck Not GonNa get a word because you talk to Long Anyway. Go ahead to that point. All three of us are very blessed because we have wives step are for what we’re doing because all of our wives do not see us have had to do a lot of things with our kids because we’re out here on the front lines so that the people represent don’t have to do that but all of our wives have been incredibly supportive. I think a lot of times people that criticize all of us don’t realize our families are also making an incredible sacrifice. I to be able to do this especially when you live in La County and you are demonized for for representing the NRA. People WANNA call you names and they’ve they’ve actually attacked my wife because just for being married to me so there’s all like you’re getting paid about the volunteer president of the California rifle and pistol associate. You know I decided a long time ago. I came out of law school. I got one of those big firm jobs. I worked there for four years and realized isn’t how I want to do it. Most lawyers spend their whole life fighting over money fighting another lawyer over money for their client. It’s all about money a and you can make a lot of money if you help fight for their money. Oh I’ve had people fight for my money and they charged me elected so then you can choose to do something that means something to you and the three of us have all done that. And that’s I’m I’m I’m proud to have given so much pro bono time and been recognized over the years for the problem of time. Now I do do. I do have a law firm and they do have skilled warriors that there’s a team gun lawyers sure that do work for the CPA but the billing on those is much lower than our commercials standard commercial clients but that said we in the folks at this table working for CRPF we’ve taken CRP from four employees to twenty in the last four years. We’re doing a lot more than we used to do. One of the things we have done and I know Sam does is. We have a board with a finance committee and an outside auditor and accountant. That monitors those books and make sure that nobody’s playing any games because we some nonprofits in California in Colorado and some other places there are guys who are into it not necessarily as much for the cause at. It’s not nonprofit right. It is deemed a nonprofit. But it’s not I get it but then the problem is that even if you even if you had an inkling to do that which you don’t the hyper focus on firearms advocacy organizations. If you ever got sideways of any of that they’d be on your ugly on but but you have to be careful. You’re giving money to and you and the other thing is we don’t need new associations if you think you have a good idea come on down. Join join because the problem is creating any kind of a business and it doesn’t matter if it’s profit or nonprofit. You still have to have office space and desks and chairs and a computer a phone system and you just showing the cost of running the Yes so all you’re doing is creating redundant infrastructure that C. R. J. has built over the last hundred forty five years. We don’t need to waste the money on that. Put it into the cost saving the Second Amendment one episode at a time this is the gun guy. Tv Pot. You’ll there is an old saying that the way to win wars to divide and conquer right so we divide as gun owners. I see it happen all the time. It’s a crazy. Thank you and I’ve talked about the hunters who don’t care about the three gun is and and and so on but even within it seems like well. I don’t like the way you particular way that you do this Sam and so I’m going to start an organization to compete with you. All we’re doing is we’re doing the enemies work for them. And what winds up happening is they. Zero in social media has made fundraising a lot less expensive than it used to be a lot more challenging at the same time but if you can come up with an angle and a lot of people use the lawsuit says an angle. Even though they don’t necessarily have those qualified lawyers on the other side of that they.

00:40:02 – 00:45:00

That’s that’s the appeal that seems to be people especially in California seem most responsive to because the reality is the litigation is probably our best hope absolutely because the legislature is so rigged in in in California and other states. I gotTa Tell Ya Sam you go up in front of that legislature. All the time. And you’re still gonNA say reasonably just to hedge my bet you’re still a reasonably sane person and I don’t know how in the world you managed that because that’s a coup house like when I have not run into in a long time. Well one thing that I learned over many years of being a son among student of senator. Richardson and competition. Politics is that you understand the nature of your opposition. And you understand that. It isn’t you that that’s the problem. It’s they are the problem. And you have to figure out a way to impact them and affect them and in their elected positions for the longest time we were very successful from nineteen seventy five to nineteen eighty nine. There was an anti gun law that was passed the state legislature. Not that we’re not nine hundred eighty nine. We had the assault weapons ban and kind of broke the dam. Loose the Democrats rigged the the redistricting and and made sure that they had more of their folks Elected and then from then on. It’s just been going falling to the left but we understand that and we understand that that is a battlefront that no matter what we have to fight in so I go in there knowing that I’m going to get my Easter handed to meet Legislative League but inside. I am just over joy knowing that. We’re going to have fun in elections politically hurting some of these people and the work that we have been doing and it hasn’t been recent it has taken years of hard work and coordination amongst organizations in filing these lawsuits and supporting them with friend of the court briefs in in bringing these new legal theories to the to the court and having the opportunity to present them. That brings me joy because I know that in my lifetime the Second Amendment is going to be restored. And I’m going to have the opportunity to go to that state legislature and tell them. Oh Yeah you’re the author of this anti-gun law we’re going to in the vernacular of the legislature. We’re GONNA tombstone this law. That has now been declared unconstitutional and wiped off the books as your law and we’re going to go and let Californians know that their rights have been restored that a small remnant of people who’ve supported our organizations with their money with their volunteer time and activities and prayers has come to fruition. We we have what I know that that is a part of our future. So I don’t have any problem when Senator Nancy. Skinner looks at me with disdain. And and and calls US horrible things from the from the dice at the state Senate or members on the assembly. Call US despicable and and murderers. That’s our fault that things happen in gay bars and Florida and shootings in in other places. That just kind of roll off our backs. Because we know what they are and we are not like them and we know we’re going to win and when you know you’re GonNa win you can go into a nasty storm and come out thinking. That’s okay anything you guys want close on any last things you want to talk about the The folks that were opposing the gun show at the DEL Mar. Fairgrounds actually got up there and said they don’t want to allow gun shows because young men and women girls go to gun shows and are exposed to get you name it. You guessed it talks emasculated. Okay so I just in closing I just say. I can’t wait for the day when the gun law book which is six hundred pages. Long is about ten pages long. I’m waiting for five myself but I’d also point out that if that happens because the Supreme Court goes away folks need to remember we’ve got `im CRP also NRA NRA getting donald trump elected president. Those huge why we have a supreme court that’s poised to give us a favoring ruling on secondment because Hillary Clinton thought that held the Heller case was about keeping kids out. GotTa kids hands. That’s how she carrying so I’ll also why we have the one hundred seventy some odd now. Conservative of federal judges.

00:45:00 – 00:47:53

We didn’t have before that’s right and and growing because Mitch McConnell. Who disagreed with on a number of things has been brilliant about shovelnose through at a rapid pace? Anything else you wanted to. I can’t tell you and I and I get goosebumps What an honor and a pleasure you know. We have a folks who go up and fight wars in for an exotic places to protect a America to protect the constitution to protect our freedoms and liberties and we are fighting a war here in. I consider chuck and Rick. We’re fighting not with each other for each other but alongside each other there you go and we are making a difference and I want to encourage an invite. Everybody WHO’s out there to be a part of. It gives us the resources we need to push across the goal line and then once we’ve done that we’re going shooting right. Yeah we’re going shooting and L. We’re going hunting and I’m going with you. You WanNa have something Joe. Let me finish with this. Yeah it is an honor and a pleasure to be working alongside these guys and we coordinate and we will coordinate all the way to the end. But you don’t know how how much joy and pleasure and honor I get from from working with you because you have a voice. That’s part of competition politics. We all have a role that we are good at. And we’re experts at and when we try to get outside of that role we usually fail or distract on on what we are capable and able to. Do you have a voice? That’s golden you have a listenership that’s willing to listen and you have the passion and the desire to give them the truth. You are an essential part of the team of what we do without you. We would be diminished so influenced cer- that’s what they call that in social media violence these. We appreciate you well. The word is half the battle. If people know what’s going on they can take part in helping stuck. So Rick you got the last word brother again equity. Sam said it’s always a pleasure to come on the show with you because you really make it feel one teen and I want to compliment you on that. Thank you very much. Well as far as I’m concerned we are so. Thank you guys very much for coming. I really do appreciate it. Have a wonderful show. Thank you check. We get pizza strategy to calibrate absolutely stick around and Hesse. Okay all right guys documented Becker. Once again thank you very much all of your support and for listening to gun guy. Tv’s firearms podcast. I’m very grateful that you do what you do. Have a wonderful week and wherever you go whatever you do please be safe. You’ve been listening to the gun. Guy TV podcast.

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