Got a new gun? What are the limits of armed self-defense? – Episode 81

Topics in this episode: 

  • In this episode of the GunGuyTV Firearms Podcast I discuss the legal, ethical, and practical limits of armed self-defense. I also take a practical and logical look at body armor for citizens and preppers.

Links for this episode:

Link to article “Are you a sheep dog?”

– CCW Safe:

– Second Call Defense:

– Link to sheriff concealed carry corruption story:

– Recording of the Young v Hawaii case:


Got a new gun? What are the limits of armed self-defense? Episode 81

00:00:01 – 00:05:01

Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition. It’s time for the gun guy TV podcast. Hi, this is Joel Persinger. I’m the gun guy. Thank you very much for all of your help and your support of gun guy TV. I’m very very grateful for everything that you do. So, please don’t stop we’re going to have a great podcast for you today. There’s a couple of subjects. I’m going to page that have become. Well, honestly, there’s a lot of questions I get on these two things and I’ve been getting these questions a lot lately I suspect because we’re getting closer and closer to election day and because of threat of civil unrest following the election no matter who wins and the civil unrest we see in the news all the time. So the two questions have been getting a lot this last few weeks are what about armor. I’ve gotten a number of those. I got one from a patreon subscriber the other day about how do you make your house more bullet-resistant and armor that you can work and sealed or armor that you wear that everybody sees and what’s the name? Starmer and all that kind of stuff. Should I even buy armor? There’s all those questions. I’ll answer those as best I can and the other questions are hey, I just got a gun or I just got a permit to carry my gun or I just got a gun and I live in a state where I can carry without a permit one of the rules of the road. What can I do and what can’t I do with that gun? So I’m going to talk about both of those in this podcast as usual that podcasts are split into two sections the first half an hour of the podcast is available on your favorite podcast player. You can listen to it just about anywhere on your way home on your way to work off. You can actually see it on YouTube and on the various distribution points for videos. We post a video version there as well. The second part of the podcast is available on patreon own life. Now before I get started, let me remind you that you can support the podcast if you’d like by simply shopping using our Amazon link. All you have to do is go to our website at gun guy. TV off. And whenever you shop Amazon click on the banner on the top of our website even easier you can go to gun guy TV and you can look at that Amazon Banner at the top of our website click on it, It will take you to Amazon through our Amazon affiliate account. Then if you bookmark that Amazon page and just returned to that bookmark every time you shop Amazon will get paid and it’s Joshua absolutely nothing. You can pick Amazon’s pocket and help provide some funds to keep gun guy TV alive. All right, let’s get started since I have a feeling that the concealed-carry questions are probably the most prominent. Let’s deal with those first and then I’ll talk about the armor stuff afterwards. So before I even get started because I’m going to tell you some things that you’re not going to like. Let me make sure you understand what my opinions are. My opinions are not the law first of all and my opinions are not going to be agreed with by most municipalities wage. Or most penal codes are most states in the union and certainly not by the state. I live in in California. So these are just my opinions. I’m going to share those with you in just a second. But let me also let you know that I’m not an attorney. So I’m not an expert in Firearms law. I certainly don’t know the laws of all 50 states and I’m not even an expert on Firearms law in the state of California. I am a Firearms instructor and I have taught concealed carry licensing courses for more than my own state were two or three different states have also taught courses for the issuing of firearms permit the security guards in the state of California for quite some time. So I do know some of the stuff pretty well, however, when I’m going to share with you is less about the law and more about common sense, but before I do that so that I can affect people getting angry with me and thinking that what I’m telling you about the law is actually my opinion. Let me tell you what my opinion is in my humble opinion the Second Amendment is your permit you dead. Need a permit from anyone you shouldn’t have to ask or beg or pay a government agency to be able to exercise a constitutionally-protected. Right? If you want to carry a gun you should be able to do that. Now how long you have to live in a cave if you think that the law agrees with that and everywhere because it doesn’t some states are like that. Some are not likewise. It is my opinion that if you are a criminal you are in the commission of a crime and you get yourself hurt or killed during the commission of a crime that’s on you. That’s your problem. That’s not the problem of the person who defended themselves who shot. You said you ran you over with a car or whatever. Let me give you some examples that would really fit in today’s world. If you are a riot or looter at what the mainstream media wants to call a peaceful protest and during that rioting and looting you get shot by a store owner or a homeowner or somebody who happens to be on the street that you attack and you are seriously injured or you die that song Entirely on you.

00:05:01 – 00:10:12

You should have made better choices in your life and not been rioting and looting. So that that’s my opinion and if that happens to you as a result of you committing those crimes you should not if you survive you should not be able to sue the individual whose shots you stabbed you or hit you in a vehicle or bumped you in the head? Likewise if you dye your family should not be able to shoo that person for wrongful death because you were killed during the commission of a crime. That’s my opinion. Now, that’s not the way the law works and most places. So I let you know that’s my opinion. Let me give you another example if you are a riot or looter or whatever and you are stopping vehicles in the middle of the highway or in the middle of the street and then attacking those vehicles with the occupant inside and you get shot by the occupant through the window or you get run over and crushed by the vehicle. That is entirely your fault. That is your issue. You should not have been attacking this person or their vehicle while they were inside of it. That’s the natural consequences of that or at least some of the natural consequences of that is that you might just get yourself wrong in a squished by a vehicle if that happens to you that’s on you. You should not be able to sue the individuals driving the car. You should not be able to complain about what you can complain all you want to but the the individual I’m in the car should not be prosecuted or held an account in any way because you were hurt while you were committing a violent crime. So again, this is not the way the law works. But that’s just my personal opinion in my humble opinion. If you are injured during the commission of a crime that injury whether it results in your death or not is entirely on you and you should not be able to receive any compensation the person who injured you or the place where you were injured if you’re trying to burglarize a building and you’re climbing up on the second floor and you fall and hurt yourself that’s entirely off you you cannot sue the building owner for that. That’s my opinion. Now in reality. Just let you know we’ve gone into the world of opinion here. You’re on your Bible. You can look it up. It’s under First Choice second opinions. You won’t find it. That’s that’s my opinion right on a first and second opinions, right, but it doesn’t fit the law in most places. So be aware of the fact that while log Can ban D those opinions around and I hear these things from people all the time and they’ll complain that the law doesn’t match their view of the world and how it should function nevertheless. You’re going to be held accountable to the law not to the opinion of Joel not to the opinion of the gun guy and not to your own opinion or the opinion of somebody on YouTube or social media or in a podcast. You’re going to be held to the law and this is where people get sideways on this stuff and that’s what I want to try to help you with now, I can’t tell you what the laws are wage in every state but if you simply think through it and use common sense, you’re going to save yourself an awful lot of headaches and an awful lot of legal trouble. So with that having been said and now that you know what my personal opinions are here’s the way this works and here’s some suggestions I would make to you if you are a new gun owner or you’re carrying a gun or even if you’re an experienced wage. Gun owner and you just don’t know this stuff first and foremost. I want to remind you that under the law in most places. If not, all of them. You cannot defend property with deadly force. You can only defend human life with deadly force of somebody’s breaking into your truck. You can’t go shoot, um while he was breaking into my truck. Yep. Well, that’s why you have insurance now again back to my opinion in my opinion if somebody is stealing your truck and they get hurt that’s on them, but that’s not how the law works. You can defend property with a gun and where this becomes a big problem is when looters are burning down stores. You cannot defend the store off by shooting the lunar in most places certainly not in the state of California. And the reason for that is you are defending property not human life and then some people get themselves in trouble with that I can log See the red rising up from your caller up to your head and the steam coming out of your ears because these people who do these kinds of things are robbing others of their livelihood off during their life savings destroying a business. They maybe had for Generations, they’re destroying lives, but you can’t defend that. Well, you can but you cannot defend not deadly force unless you are facing a threat of deadly violence Most states will Define that as a threat which Rises to the level of death or serious or great bodily harm. That means hospitalization. You’re going to get hurt so badly that you’re going to end up in a hospital or you’re going to be dead and if you can articulate that that’s just kind of threat you were facing and that’s what you believed at that moment.

00:10:12 – 00:15:17

Then yeah, you can use deadly force absent at know, you can’t now that may be different in some States or other. I don’t know. Yep. Far as I know that’s pretty much Universal across the United States where it really begins to make people angry and it makes me angry is when it starts becoming a political type of thing. It’s a political event took the local leaders of a city or a county or a state will allow rioters and looters to destroy businesses destroy properties and then not prosecute them. However, if the business owners and Property Owners defend their property, they will prosecute them. That’s the example of the McCluskey’s are murkowski’s or whatever from st. Louis I think is where they’re from the people who broke through the gate and were threatening their lives and threatening to destroy their home. We’re pretty much left untouched but they want to prosecute the homeowners for standing out in front bumper and willing to defend themselves and their their home which in my humble opinion, we’re back to my opinion again first and second opinions. They’re in my opinion. They have every legal right to wage. But I don’t know that they have that legal right in that state and that’s why they’re being prosecuted. So it is important for you to understand that if you try to defend property with deadly crash course, you may find yourself sitting in jail for a very long time. It doesn’t sound fair and that’s because it isn’t but nevertheless it is the way the world works and we have to deal with reality of that. Now I’m going to talk some more about the other aspects that you need to be aware of in just a minute since we’re on the subject of guns and defending ourselves. Let me remind you that you may find yourself not only in criminal but in civil court, if you ever have to defend yourself with a firearm or any other deadly weapon try urge you to have some coverage to pay for the legal battle afterwards and also bail you out of jail and the other things that you’re going to need. Otherwise you find yourself the victim of circumstance and you’re trying to get money from GoFundMe orrell. Your friends or whatever worse yet. Perhaps, you’re dependent upon a public defender. I call them public plea bargain hers because they really don’t defend anyone. So I urge you to check out some coverage for that package, which I use I have two companies. I use CCW safe is one and the second call defense is the other now. I want you to know that neither one of those companies provides me anything for free month and I signed up with both companies long before I had any business relationship with them at this point. I do have an affiliate relationship with both of those companies. So I want to be upfront about wage if you were to use our link and purchase a membership with CCW safe or second call defense. We will get paid here at gun guy TV for your having done that it won’t cost you anything would do have an affiliate relationship and I want to make sure I’m being real with that that shed I do urge you to check out those companies and the best way to do it would be to go to our website at gun guy TV, you’ll If you scroll down you’ll find banner ads for both CCW safe and second call defense and that will take you to those websites through our affiliate links. So if you do decide to use one of those companies will actually get credit it helps us keep gun guy TV going and I certainly do appreciate that. So check out CCW safe and second call defense this podcast needs your life. Send your entire wallet to the gun guy. 1313 Mockingbird Lane Transylvania now back to what we were talking about before. I want to remind you that under almost every States laws it maybe every state. I don’t know. I haven’t checked that everyone I’ve ever checked. You cannot defend property with deadly force. You can only defend human life either your own life or the life of another person and you can only defend that life if it is facing a threat a credible real in-your-face shamim. A threat right now of death or serious bodily harm in other words. Somebody can threaten you and say I’m I’m going to hunt you down and kill you next week and you cannot shoot that person because that’s wrong is not immediate. It’s not right now. It may be in a week but it isn’t right now right now, what you can do is call the cops and say hey that guy threatened to kill me next week and that’s really all you can do about it. But if the truck is in your face right now and it’s a threat of death or great bodily harm, then you can use deadly force to repel that or defeat it. Now. Keep in mind if you’re defending a third person typically in order to defend that other person then that person needs to have had that right at that moment to use deadly force to defend themselves against other words the threat against that person needs to have risen to that same level either death or serious bodily harm.

00:15:17 – 00:20:00

So you have to ask yourself would that person if they had a gun be able to defend themselves legally and if they can then you can defend them hope that makes a little bit more sense. This is where a lot of people get in trouble. They’re defending property and that’s just not a good thing use your insurance coverage to defend your property. I will tell you an example if I’m looking out the window of my house and somebody is breaking my truck. I’m not going to go out and confront that person because if I do then there could be a confrontation and I end up shooting that individual. You said I’m going to call the police and hope they get here in time. And if they don’t that’s why I have insurance now, that sounds terrible. You’d like to go out there and deal with it because you like your truck or you like your car you like your boat or whatever it is. You don’t and you’re you feel violated that this person is breaking into this or that I totally understand and I’m with you a hundred percent, but I’m just sharing with you that my opinion is you should be able to go out and stop that individual but my opinion does not count. We don’t live in the land of job. Opinion we live in the land of how the laws work check your local laws and make sure but I almost bet you that you cannot defend property with deadly force. Now. Here’s another area where people get in trouble a lot. Here’s a rule for you a firearm is not a passport to go places that you would otherwise not go if you didn’t have a firearm now, sometimes we have to do that because we’re police officers security officer or our business or work or whatever takes us into dangerous areas. And that’s why we had a firearm because we have an obligation to go if you’re a person who if you’re a contractor or something and you do a lot of work in tough neighborhoods, and yeah, you’ve got your gun with you maybe in your truck or whatever maybe on you because you’re in a tough neighborhood. That’s a reason to go there beyond the fact that you just decided to go and you wouldn’t have gone if you didn’t have the gun, but I’m going to go anyway, for example, I’m just going to again I’m giving you birth. The rules of the road for me and you apply them the way you want to apply them but I can tell you that a firearm is not a passport for you to go do things or go places you wouldn’t go without a permit. So I ask myself as a law-abiding citizen. I’d like to go so and so and do such and such and I say to myself. Okay would I do that if I wasn’t carrying a gun off if the answer is no that I will not go and here’s an example. I don’t personally go to rallies political rallies now, I don’t go for a couple of reasons one is I’m not a people person so I don’t like it’s not that I don’t like people. I just don’t like people at large volume. So I’d rather watch the ball game on the television than go to the stadium with fifty thousand people in a drives me nuts. I don’t like to begin crowds. I was raised in a rural area where had a lot of space. So when we go out to Arizona too soft good property we bought and we’re twenty Thirty miles from anybody. I’m perfectly at home out there. Even if I’m all by my dog. Self so that’s just part of my nature. I don’t like to be in crowds. It’s it bothers me. So I won’t go to political rallies for that reason. The other reason I won’t go is because lately they’ve become violent in many cases and I’m carrying a gun. Well, I don’t want to bring a gun into an environment like that because that increases the likelihood that I might have to shoot somebody and I don’t want to shoot anybody down to shoot anybody because I don’t want to shoot anybody don’t want to injure someone else but I also don’t want to shoot anybody because I don’t want the aftermath in my life that destroys my life after I have done it even though everything I did was right because the question is going to be asked in court. Did you know did you did your client know that this was dangerous? And if your client knew that was dangerous and why did he go? So I want to remind you he’s a firearm and if you’re in a place where you have to have a permit your permit is not a passport to go to things you otherwise would not go to if yo, Didn’t have the gun. So ask yourself. I carry a gun all the time. I’ve carried a gun for forty years I ask myself if I didn’t have the gun what I go to that and if the answer is no, I don’t go because I’m not going to go without the gun particularly if it’s a place I wouldn’t go unless I had one and I’m not going to go with the gun because I’m walking into an area where I know I could be walking into Harm’s Way and it’s not worth it. There’s no reason for me to do that now. Like I said, if there’s some other driving reason for me to go I have to go for work or I’m going because I’m going to go with my son or what am I took courage to help keep them safe because they have to go for work or something along those lines then yeah. I might go, you know, I’ll go do that. I’m going to keep them safe.

00:20:00 – 00:25:03

Keep myself safe if that’s what I have to do. But absent some wage driving force reason like that. I just won’t go I’ll do something else. So remember that just because you have a gun does it mean you need to go some place where you might have to use it off? That’s where I think people like Kyle Rittenhouse got themselves sideways and I’m not picking on Kyle Rittenhouse. I think what he did was exactly appropriate. I think he did a marvelous job of defending himself, but you gotta ask yourself. Why was he there? Well, he was there with his buddies to help defend a business or some businesses and business people that he knew what she defending property and then he’s got a gun. He takes it to a public protest which have been now historically violent and he brings a rifle to it. And now the chances of him having to defend himself with that rifle are sharply increased and as a result that song ends up what he did he had two and he defended himself admirably I agree but had he made better choices. He would not now be sitting in jail. He would be home. Now. I want to reiterate that. You may not agree with the things I’m saying to you. I understand truthfully. I don’t agree with the way it is either but it is the way it is and we have to function within the real world. I don’t like it off. But it is what it is. As far as I’m concerned. I stand fully in support of a malicious showing up to defend business owners and businesses, but I’m going to tell you the way the law reads and the way that it’s going to be applied most of the time in many many places. That’s a very unwise thing to do because it can land you in jail or prison for a very very very long long time. Should it be that way in my opinion know but it is and that’s what we have to address now if we don’t like that and I don’t I think that’s where we were together to change those laws and to change the politics because often times no matter how much we’d like to say, it doesn’t happen politics interferes with this stuff and we’ve seen that off for months where the black lives matter and antifa protest have been concerned and all these other things and even in case of Kyle Rittenhouse the kids being prosecuted because of politics and birth Because of politics and that much is obvious. So be aware of the fact that that could be you, you know, I see that happen to people and I think to myself there but for the grace of God go I you know, I’ve gotta make better decisions because I have a wife and I have a family and I have things I need to pay for and support and I’m getting to be an old man. I don’t want to be sued or prosecuted into Oblivion and I certainly don’t want to put myself in jail for the rest of my life. So would I go to a protest like that? No, I told you one reason is that I like groups, but the other is I’m not going to go to that because I know there’s a very good chance. I might have found shoot somebody I don’t want to do that. That’s the thinking process. I’m going to suggest you use the gun is not a passport to go do things you otherwise wouldn’t do if you didn’t have a gun now, we’ll talk about some other aspects of this in a moment very quickly. I want to remind you that the rest of this podcast is actually on patreon. So the first half hour is dead. Ritu everybody the second half hour is on patreon for patreon patrons only that’s an addition to the video podcast that I do twice a month. I think there’s 66 or 67 those episodes are on there as well and a whole lot of exclusive videos. I did one today and posts on things that are behind the scenes all those things appear on patreon for patreon subscribers only that’s another way that you can support the podcast and support gun Guide TV by joining us on patreon. You can find the link in the description or you can go to our website at gun guy. TV off and look for the patreon link shooting straight and always right on target. This is the gun guy TV podcast. You know, obviously there’s not enough time in a half an hour podcast for me to go through every aspect of concealed carry or open carry or personal protection. I just can’t go through it all for you. There’s not enough time. So I will leave you with this last thought and that is that a firearm like a a knife or any other tool defend yourself as a personal protection weapon and I call it a personal protection weapon because the reason I’m carrying that weapon is to protect myself wage and those I love I’m not carrying that weapon to defend the world or protect the whole world. Now, that’s not to say that if somebody’s being hurt in front of me that I’m not necessarily going to impact. However, it is not the reason I carry the gun by contrast if I were a police officer and I saw somebody being hurt I’m obligated to dive in there and help if off.

00:25:03 – 00:30:14

A police officer and I’m at the mall when somebody starts shooting up the mall. I’m obligated to try to go get that shooter obligated to step in there and work and do something. However, if I’m not if I’m just carrying a gun to defend myself my wife and my kids that I’m obligated to defend myself and if my family’s with me to defend my family and get them out of Dodge, that’s my first priority. So I wrote an article about this. I’ll refer you to and we’ll put a link in the description. You’ll also just find it on gun guy TV, but I wrote an article called are you a sheep dog? And I found two sheeps wolves and porcupines in that particular article. I don’t talk about sheep dogs because sheep dogs in my mind are professionals. I’ve been a professional sheepdog. Look at professional Sheepdogs, you’re talking about the United States military. What do they do? They defend the nation? So they’re The Sheepdogs. They’re sheep are the United States citizens and the people who are log. Living in the United States and US citizens wherever they happen to be and that’s what the military does they kill people and break things and defend the country other professional Sheepdogs are police officers and law officer. Sheep are the people that fall within the jurisdiction of that officers. So for example in the city of Chula Vista the sheep that the Chula Vista Police Department is there to protect serve would be the people in the city of Chula Vista and you kind of get the idea. I mean a security guard for example an armed security guard or somebody doing executive protection or sheep are the people are protecting with an exact you Tavor a family or whatever. You have an armed security guard working at a facility. The Sheep are the people who work at the facility the employees there. Outside of that that guards got no responsibility all well as a law-abiding citizen my sheep are my wife and my children and my family that shoe I protect those are the primary people that I protect and God help you if you try to hurt them because I will protect them and you should to protect your your sheep. Now if I don’t happen to be with them, I’m by myself. I’m not a sheep dog at all. I’m a porcupine. Now. The thing I like about porcupines is porcupines pretty much mind their own business or just looking to get something to eat today and they’re kind of slow and plodding. That’s me as I get older and they just sort of go along their way. They don’t bother anybody there unassuming and they don’t want to any trouble they’re not they’re just off looking foraging around for food to make their lives and get through their daily routine. Whatever that is and they want to do that and be unmolested. However, if you decide to molest a porcupine you’re liable to get stuck and if you don’t think that Predators have made that mistake, all you have to do is go online and look up references to dogs or Wolves or lions or bears being stuck with porcupine quills. Well, that’s me. I’m a porcupine. I carry a gun. I carry a knife I would go about my day. I mind my own business. I’m just going about my business each day. I want to do that. I’m kind to everyone. I’m polite to everyone. I want to be unmolested. Leave me alone or you might get shot down you might get stuck. That’s what I view myself as when I’m not with my family now if I’m with my family, I’m not a porcupine anymore. I’m a sheep dog. That’s the difference. And so if you’re not a professional sheepdog don’t act like you are keep your priorities straight. That doesn’t mean that you can’t step up and help if help is needed. That doesn’t mean you can’t. A criminal in the act of a crime if it’s right in front of you that doesn’t mean any of those things but it does mean that you should keep your priorities straight. My number one priority when I’m out by myself is to protect me because if I don’t protect me that I can’t be there to protect my family. So while I will help I’m not going to put myself in a position where I can get killed because if I do now, I’m not there to take care of my family and I failed as a sheep dog and the only little sheep dog roll. I’ve got when I’m with my family. My number one priority is the safety of my fam. My personal safety comes after that and everybody else is safety comes even further down the line after that. My job is to protect my wife and my family and my friends up there with me and get them out of Dodge if I get injured or killed in the process, but I succeed in doing that then so be it. I’m happy as a clam. However, I’m not going to abandon my family to go out and face some danger to protect the public. That’s not my job and in doing so I have now taking my attention away from my family. So these are just some Concepts to think about if you’re carrying a gun around or if you’ve got one for home defense think through it understand what you can do what you can’t do legally that’s an exercise and maybe taking some courses in your local area and learning about what is legally allowed and what isn’t wherever you are.

00:30:14 – 00:32:33

Each state is different than the city is different. You’re going to have to figure that out on your own. I don’t know where you are. I know what it is where I live because I teach the course for the San Diego County Sheriff’s department. So I understand what I can do and what I can’t do much California and I’ve sat through many illegal seminar about it, but outside of California, I don’t know I simply apply California’s rules to everywhere because I know California is more strict than everywhere else than I am. I’m in Texas. I’m probably good if I just follow California’s rules that seems to work out. However, your area is going to be different. So you got to do your own research and then you’ve got to understand the mindset and ask yourself. Why do I have the gun? Why do I have it? And if the answer is to defend yourself and those you love em to sit down and make that priority list and decide ahead of him. When will you act to help the public? And when will you not and under what circumstances is it more important for you to make sure that you are safe so that you’re there for your family or that your family is safe before you act to help someone who isn’t a part of that group now, like I said, I knew I was going to say things that are going to rankle page and make people mad. I’m just explaining to you the reality of the way life works. So it makes you mad I get it. Sometimes it makes me mad too. Well, thank you very much for listening. I think I’ve gained Up. I’ve actually got a little long in this part of the podcast. I’m going to move on to the next part. We’re going to talk about armor and whether civilians should have it or not. I think they should and exactly how do you use armor you use armor. When is it applicable? And what’s a good plan for your family wear armor is concerned. I’m wearing a lot of armor in my life. I can tell you it’s heavy. It’s hot and it’s a pain in the butt. So you really have to walk through it before you launch into applying a desire to have armor all the time or certain kinds of armor. It’s something you want to think through. We’re going to talk more about that in just a minute. So if you’re on patreon stick with me, if you’re listening to the publicly-available podcast, thank you very much for your time. Thank you very much for your support. Have a wonderful week and wherever you go, whatever you do stay safe choice. You’ve been listening to the gun guy TV podcast.

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